Session 753

“Defining Personality Type”
“Imagination — What is Known”
“Other Avenues of Communication”

Saturday, January 6, 2001 (Private/Phone)
Participants:  Mary (Michael) and Rodney (Zacharie).
Elias arrives at 3:02 PM. (Arrival time is 21 seconds)

ELIAS:  Good afternoon!

RODNEY:  Good afternoon, Elias! (Elias chuckles)  How are you doing?

ELIAS:  As always, and yourself?

RODNEY:  Not too bad.  I’ve had some conditions.  I’ve been expressing some conditions which I’d like to talk to you about.

ELIAS:  Very well.

RODNEY:  I’ve been creating some headaches, which is historically something that I do not do, sharp ones that come and go quickly, and I’ve been creating a lot of dizziness.  It’s kinda like the energy in me seems to make me woozy, even when I’m sitting down.  It’s like if I’m sitting still, I begin to sway, and I notice this energy in me.  I’ve also been smoking, and I’ve been connecting with smoking because it has a strong impact on me, it seems.  I’ve been asking myself, why am I creating this?  I’d like to talk to you about that.

ELIAS:  Very well.  What is your impression?

RODNEY:  Well, the biggest one is that I’ve created it to focus my attention on myself and to notice what’s going on inside me.  This light-headedness or wobbliness reminds me of losing control or just letting things go, and I’m wondering if I’m not experimenting with the sensation of letting go; for instance, letting go of my body and being consciously aware of that.  Another thought that came to me is focusing my attention on the moment in a really powerful way.  Some people call that grounding, I guess.  Those are some impressions.  One other is that I woke up in the middle of the night ... and it really didn’t have to do with smoking, but it had to do with a very dry throat which I get this time of year in this climate.  I asked myself why I was creating this expression around my throat, and it came to me that I was focusing my attention on my expression.  And with that, I thought of writing something in a creative way, and no sooner had I thought that, that the first couple of lines of a poem seemed to jump into my head, and I’ve actually been playing with the metaphor that was suggested.  I’ve written maybe 20 or 30 verses.

These are my impressions of why I may be creating this.  Would you comment on those?

ELIAS:  I shall express to you that these identifications of your impressions are correct in the translation of some aspects of what you are creating and what you are offering to yourself, that you shall allow yourself to examine ...

RODNEY:  Which are those?

ELIAS:  ... each of these identifications associated with your beliefs concerning your choice of actions.

Now; I shall also express to you that you are offering to yourself an underlying theme in all of these impressions and in all of these exhibitions of physical expressions that you are experiencing.

Now; in this, the underlying theme of these expressions and what you are offering to yourself is the allowance of yourself not merely to be paying attention to yourself within the now, but to be paying attention to the other avenues of communication that you offer to yourself in other expressions than thought.

RODNEY:  Oh, really!

ELIAS:  You offer MANY avenues of communication to yourself.

The one avenue that you pay most attention to — almost to the point of being exclusive — in identification of information or your definition of communication is thought.

Let me express to you, as I have expressed previously recently to other individuals, thought is a tool which has been created in relation to this physical dimension with the express function of defining and interpreting, in objective clarity, the communications that are offered to you through all the other avenues that you have designed for communication.  Thought itself is not in actuality the source of communication.  Therefore, in itself, its function is not actually communication.  Thought is a tool that you incorporate in this physical dimension to be defining, identifying, and interpreting in objective clarity the expressions of communication that you offer to yourself through other avenues.

Now; those other avenues of communication are expressed through all of your senses — inner and outer senses — through emotion, through impressions, through impulses, and through what you define in your physical experience as a sensing of other expressions of consciousness, none of which are thought, but they are all defined and interpreted through this tool of thought.

Now; in all that you are creating in physical experiences, you are allowing yourself to be interruptive of your thought process.

RODNEY:  Right.  My smoking ... I don’t think when I smoke.  I focus intently on the feelings within me, it seems.

ELIAS:  Now; in creating this interruption of thought, you are beginning to move yourself into a focus of attention within you and your experiences that allows you to notice and pay attention to all of these other avenues of communication.

You also offer yourself communication through the creation of physical manifestations or physical affectingnesses within the expression of your body consciousness.

RODNEY:  Right, I do that.  I know I do that.

ELIAS:  (Chuckling)  You are correct!  You DO do this! (Laughing)

RODNEY:  Let me ask you, in regard to that ... I caught myself daydreaming for just a moment.  I was thinking about the question I was gonna ask you soon, and I had a notion about what that was all about.  All of a sudden, on my left hand on my middle finger, I felt a rapid pulsing, almost like somebody was touching it, and I thought, that’s very unusual.  Of course, it could’ve been the way my arm was laying on the table, but I felt there was more to it than that, and I felt that my body was telling me that the contents of that daydream were pertinent, were possibly accurate.  Would you comment on that mode of communication?

ELIAS:  Let me express to you, I am aware of what you are expressing, for I also have been a participant in this experience with you ...

RODNEY:  Okay! (Laughing)

ELIAS:  ... to be offering more of an extreme of an expression of difference in communication that shall allow you to pay attention.

Now; in this, as I have engaged with other individuals also, as I project an expression of energy that shall create a physical sensation with an individual in physical focus, your attention automatically and immediately moves to the unfamiliarity of the sensation, and in that communication, you each do allow yourself an immediate recognition that what you are engaging in the moment is worthy of your attention.

RODNEY:  Okay.  So you were doing the tapping on my finger.

ELIAS:  In a manner of speaking.

RODNEY:  Okay.  I want to thank you for that.

ELIAS:  You are welcome, and you have received the message quite efficiently, for you did allow yourself to recognize that the action that you were engaging in the moment was what you intended to be paying attention to.  But in this confirmation through my energy expression, you allowed yourself to be focusing your attention more directly in the experience that you were engaging.

RODNEY:  Thank you.  We’ll talk more about that in a second, okay?

ELIAS:  Very well.

RODNEY:  What you said about ... what you’ve just said is very meaningful to me.  In a way, it kind of touches on another question that I have, and that is, you spoke to someone recently about the manner in which essence structures our focus in terms of the input and output of information in a focus, and you mentioned four aspects of that.  One was emotional, one was religious, one was thought, and one was political, and I gave that some attention, and it came to me that the manner in which I first go is to thought, and I’ve had the color purple, and I gather from what you just said that that is an accurate interpretation or assessment.  Is that correct?

ELIAS:  Yes, you are correct.  Your association with the color is your individual imagery that you create in association with this type of expression in thought focus.

RODNEY:  You said something about this also influencing personality type.  By personality type, you’re referring to whether a person is common or soft?

ELIAS:  No.  This is the identification of orientation.  This is a different expression than that of personality.

RODNEY:  How would you define personality in that context?

ELIAS:  The personality is a structure of expressional type.  It is the identification, in part, of the expression of the individual in a construct, so to speak.

The personality is, in a manner of speaking, the blueprint of the expression, and influencing of the manner in which the individual shall structure their experience in relation to their engagement and interaction with their communications of self.

Now; the manner in which you engage your communications with self also influences your expression outwardly and how you interact with other individuals.

The personality is quite interactive with the different expressions of communication, and in the individuality and uniqueness of each individual, you may express some qualities in similarity to each other.

This is the identification of personality types.

But even within the expressions of personality types, each individual expresses a uniqueness to themselves in their blueprint of the individual personality, which is your expression of all of your communications.  Therefore, it is also quite influencing of the mechanism of perception.

Now; I may express to you, all of these elements of an individual which are chosen in the expression of any one particular manifestation or focus of attention are all intertwined with each other, which creates an interplay of influence of all of these different aspects of expression of the individual: the expression of body consciousness, the expression of communications in all of its forms and as expressed through all of its avenues, the association of beliefs that the individual aligns with, the expression and blueprint of personality and personality type, the association of the type of focus which is chosen by the individual and the orientation that the individual has chosen, and the association of physical expression in relation to physical body consciousness in association with gender.

These are all factors which create a contribution in their interplay with each other and their intertwining effects with each other that create an individual unique expression, which is that of your perception.

RODNEY:  I thank you for all of that.

ELIAS:  You are welcome.

RODNEY:  So the expressions I’m creating for myself are a “method,” if you will, or an expression to open up these other communication channels?

ELIAS:  Not necessarily to open these other channels of communication, but to allow you to be noticing and paying attention.

RODNEY:  Right.  Okay, understood.  Thank you again.

ELIAS:  You are quite welcome.

RODNEY:  I’m having problems with my phone.  Can you hear me?

ELIAS:  Yes.

RODNEY:  Recently, I got the urge to attempt to write down my thoughts in a metaphorical way, almost as an aid to assist me, to help me understand certain concepts and beliefs in right and wrong and duplicity and acceptance and things like that.  It sounds like it’s kind of a natural for me, if thought is my primary medium.  Excuse me for a moment.  I want to change my tape. (Pause)

If thought is my primary function for communicating, then writing is a more natural medium for my expression than, say, a political or religious focus would be.

ELIAS:  Not necessarily.

RODNEY:  Not necessarily.  Okay.  Would you comment further on that?

ELIAS:  I may express to you, creating these types of associations and identifications narrows your recognition of the expressions and creativity of any individual.

Thought as a focus of expression and perception does not necessarily express itself most efficiently through the medium of writing.  This is an expression of the individual.  It is not necessarily an association of the choice of thought focus.

Individuals holding any of these other three expressions of focus may be expressing creativity and communication quite efficiently through writing.  This is the choice of the individual and what may be an efficient and free flow of energy in expression of that particular individual.

RODNEY:  Okay.  So do I hear you saying that any of these four manners, I think you referred to them, could choose any medium in which to express themselves?

ELIAS:  Yes.

RODNEY:  Okay, and that not any single one medium of expression would necessarily be implied.  It’s just a choice on the part of the focus.

ELIAS:  Correct.

RODNEY:  I could choose to be painting, for instance.

ELIAS:  Correct.

RODNEY:  Alright.  Okay, I got that one straight, and I thank you for your help! (Laughing)

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha ha!

RODNEY:  I’d like to move on.  A couple of quick questions, I think.  I have a friend who I met recently.  Her initials are B.P., and I was hoping you would give me her family, alignment, and orientation, which she would like to have. (Pause)

ELIAS:  Essence family, Borledim; alignment, Zuli.

RODNEY:  Excuse me?

ELIAS:  Zuli.

RODNEY:  Zuli.  And her orientation?

ELIAS:  Orientation, common.

RODNEY:  Have we shared any other focuses together?

ELIAS:  Yes.

RODNEY:  Was I ever her/his wife?  I was the woman and she was the man?

ELIAS:  Yes.

RODNEY:  Correct?

ELIAS:  Yes, you are correct.

RODNEY:  How many focuses have we shared together?

ELIAS:  Fourteen.

RODNEY:  Truly!  In how many of those fourteen did we have an intimate relationship, such as man and wife? (Pause)

ELIAS:  In the expression of....

RODNEY:  Or lovers. (Pause)

ELIAS:  Very well.  Seven.

RODNEY:  Really?  I feel a powerful draw to her, and that would indicate why, would it not?

ELIAS:  In part.

RODNEY:  In part.  Okay.  When it came to me that I might have been related to her in this fashion, I also had the pulsing in the middle of my ... in my middle finger.

ELIAS:  And you may be experiencing this in different time frameworks, not merely one.

Let me express to you, as I have stated previously, I have engaged similar actions with other individuals.  I have chosen expressions of physical interaction with individuals in different manners designed in an expression that shall be unintrusive, but shall also be gaining the individual’s attention.

And as I engage this action with individuals, its express purpose, so to speak, is to be offering you a validation within the moment in relation to what you are engaging and what you are creating and what you are offering to yourself in information.

RODNEY:  Well, I really appreciate you doing that.  That’s a beautiful gift, and I thank you for it.

ELIAS:  You are quite welcome.

RODNEY:  I don’t know if you were paying attention, but I once gave you permission to use lighting bolts as well!

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

RODNEY:  As long as it didn’t get too close!

ELIAS:  This may be much more dramatic and possibly intrusive in your focus!  Therefore, I have chosen a less expressive method, ha ha!

RODNEY:  Okay. (They both laugh)  That’s funny!

Let me ask you, do we change our ... we don’t change our essence family as we go from one focus to another, do we?

ELIAS:  The essence family that you are belonging to, you do not alter, generally speaking.  The essence family which is expressed as that which you are belonging to is expressed within all of the focuses of attention.

RODNEY:  So that this woman, B.P., she would ... her essence is Borledim.  She would always be in that essence.

ELIAS:  Yes.

RODNEY:  Okay.  Is that also true of alignment?


RODNEY:  We vary alignment as we go from one focus to another?

ELIAS:  Yes.  You create alignments with different families in all of your focuses.  This is the choice of the individual focus of attention [as to] which family it shall choose to be aligning itself with, in relation to these other aspects of design of which we have spoken this day.

RODNEY:  Okay.  In the focus in which I was the wife and she was the husband, what would my alignment have been and what would her alignment have been? (Pause)

ELIAS:  Alignment in that focus of yourself, Ilda.

RODNEY:  Ilda.

ELIAS:  Alignment of this individual in that focus, Sumari.

RODNEY:  Sumari.

ELIAS:  Correct.

RODNEY:  Were we merchants?

ELIAS:  What is your impression, my friend?


ELIAS:  (Laughing)  Correct.

RODNEY:  Really!  Were we....

ELIAS:  What is your impression of your product?

RODNEY:  Um ... I’ve just confused myself. (Elias chuckles)  I had a sense that we were stationary, like we had a store.

ELIAS:  Correct.

RODNEY:  Really?  But there was a major item, a product in the store?

ELIAS:  Yes.

RODNEY:  Fabrics, cloth.

ELIAS:  I may express to you that this product is the secondary....

RODNEY:  Really?

ELIAS:  You offer a primary product in different type of manifestation.

RODNEY:  Okay.  First I thought of sails, as in sailing, but the second one was clothing, as in what you put on your body.  I would think it would be one of those.

ELIAS:  This is the expansion of your impression in association with cloth.

RODNEY:  Oh, okay.

ELIAS:  Shall I offer to you?


ELIAS:  Ha ha ha!  As you are beginning movement into guessing rather than....

RODNEY:  (Laughing)  It’s that obvious, huh?

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha ha!  I may express to you, the primary product is tea.


ELIAS:  Correct.

RODNEY:  Oh my.  You know, one of my first impressions was spices.


RODNEY:  So that’s what I get for not noticing! (Laughing)

ELIAS:  Or discounting of your impressions!

RODNEY:  Yes, you are so right. (Laughing)

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha ha!

RODNEY:  Another quick question.  I was flipping through a book the other day, and I saw a picture of Gurdjieff, who was associated with Ouspensky, and the instant I saw the picture, I thought of my friend Robert, who you said had an essence name of Ben-Adi.  I was curious as to whether or not his focus was in any way related to the focus of Gurdjieff.

ELIAS:  Yes.

RODNEY:  Are they the same essence?

ELIAS:  Yes.

RODNEY:  They are the same essence.  Okay, I guess he’s going to do a little reading! (They both laugh)

My friend that you met here on the 7th of October, Robin ... well, I should say this.  Have I had other focuses with Robin?

ELIAS:  Yes.

RODNEY:  How many?

ELIAS:  What is your impression?

RODNEY:  A lot.

ELIAS:  You are correct.  Shall I continue to merely offer you all of this information without your engaging of yourself?


ELIAS:  HA HA HA HA HA!  And Elias shall carry you through this information, and you shall not be offering it to yourself, and I may express to you, NOT! (Chuckling humorously)

RODNEY:  Did you say not?

ELIAS:  Yes!

RODNEY:  Oh, so you’re not going to give it to me!

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha! (Rodney cracks up)  HA HA HA HA!

RODNEY:  I thought we were gonna get so efficient here!

ELIAS:  Ah!  In YOUR definition of efficiency, which is that you shall not be connecting with this information.  You shall merely inquire of myself, and I shall offer it all freely to you!  Ha!

RODNEY:  Okay, that being the case, I need ... at least give me a hunch that I’m on the right track here.  I’ve also had quite a few focuses with Ben-Adi?

ELIAS:  Yes, you are correct.

RODNEY:  Did I ever know Gurdjieff myself in any of these other focuses?

ELIAS:  Briefly.

RODNEY:  Briefly, okay.  Thank you.

ELIAS:  You are quite welcome, my friend.

RODNEY:  On to another question! (They both laugh)

I’ll get back to finger pulsing.  An element of my dream imagery which I find fascinating has been the presence of black people, not that they’ve appeared that frequently, but that when they do appear, they appear in an extremely dramatic way.  That’s what my daydream was about, because I sat down and I worked on what the image of black people means for me, and I find that I have a very deep appreciation and feeling of being at ease with black people.  It’s something that I enjoy very much, in a general sense.  Of course, that varies from person to person.

I’ll go back to the dream, which I related to you, and the dream ended with my carrying this amplifier down a steep ladder, and you said that the imagery had to do with my relationship with you in this focus.  In that dream, I walked through a field, and in the field was a huge gathering of black people, all seated in an auditorium but on the ground in front of an amphitheater, and they had all arrived in very old cars.  I got the image of black cars, all in very excellent working order.

What I came up with is, I had a sense that in my imagery, they stand for the original people, so to speak, like being the first people on this planet, in kind of a sequential way.  I think more importantly, it says something about my imagery in moving into this shift in consciousness, because this shift in consciousness is very connected to your idea of acceptance, and for me, the black people I’ve met in this country, what they symbolize for me is an incredible capacity to accept what is happening in their lives — not that they all do, but when I project myself into situations which I see them experiencing, I feel that in no way could I accept what was happening.  These of course are all perceptions, and it’s all wrapped up in my beliefs.

But I was wondering, not so much as a description or identification of what black people are, because I don’t think we can generalize about that, but as far as my imagery in my dreams is concerned, am I being fairly accurate and true to myself with my identifications and interpretations?

ELIAS:  Of your dream imagery, yes.

RODNEY:  I am?

ELIAS:  Yes.  And I may also express to you, Zacharie, that within the many manifestations that you have created within this physical dimension, you also have chosen many focuses of attention in this particular type of physical manifestation.

RODNEY:  You know, that was one of my questions.  How many focuses have I had in which I was a black person? (Pause)

ELIAS:  In this physical dimension, you have created 582 focuses of attention in that particular type of manifestation.

RODNEY:  Wow.  You know, I’m not surprised to hear you say that.

ELIAS:  This also be what you would term to be the reason that you create this type of imagery, to present to yourself certain information which you shall allow yourself to easily assimilate objectively, for you hold a preference in essence for this type of manifestation.

Now; let me express to you, I have offered information previously with other individuals in this forum that essences do create preferences as to certain types of manifestations within a particular physical dimension, which may extend not merely to an identification of culture and ethnic expression, but also may be expressed in physical body type, a preference in manifestation of orientations, of genders, of focus types, and also to the expression of personality types; not the expression of the individuality of personality, which as I have stated is unique to each focus of attention.  But in personality TYPE, many times essences express a preference in the design of how focuses shall be manifest in this particular physical dimension.  Therefore, many times, although the experiences of the focuses may vary quite vastly, certain expressions of the physical manifestations may be quite similar to each other.

RODNEY:  Yeah.  I haven’t had time to read over what you said about my manner of expression being primarily ... or communication being primarily thought.  But that’s part of personality type, right?

ELIAS:  No.  This is another aspect of what you incorporate in this particular manifestation or any particular manifestation within this physical dimension.  It does move quite intimately with the blueprint of the personality, but it is not the expression OF the personality.  It is a quality, in a manner of speaking.

RODNEY:  Okay.  In this daydream I had when I was thinking about black people, I was talking to two older black women, explaining to them that I feel like a black person in many focuses, and although they pretend that they don’t know what reincarnation is, I feel that they actually do know it to be true, and that’s when I had the pulsing on the end of my finger.

ELIAS:  Correct.

RODNEY:  Okay, alright.  So then on some level, they do know that.

ELIAS:  Correct.

RODNEY:  Alright, even though objectively they would not put it into that many words.

ELIAS:  Although I shall also be reminding you that the expression of reincarnation is an identification of a belief, for you are not in actuality reincarnating.

RODNEY:  I understand that.  I use that term because it’s in the language, so to speak.

ELIAS:  Quite.  I am understanding.

RODNEY:  I was myself thinking of other focuses.

ELIAS:  Correct.

RODNEY:  And along that line, I get the feeling that my essence has chosen to manifest more frequently as a woman than as a man.  Is that a correct impression that I’ve received? (Pause)

ELIAS:  Yes, you are correct.

RODNEY:  Is it dramatically so, or is it kind of like half and half? (Pause)

ELIAS:  More so to the female in gender than to the male ...

RODNEY:  But not overly dramatic.

ELIAS:  ... expressed in the ratio of 671 in female.

RODNEY:  Okay, thank you.  Let’s see.  I have more time.  Mary said we could go a little bit longer.

ELIAS:  Very well.

RODNEY:  May I ... I’d like to change my tape here. (Pause)  Thank you for waiting.

ELIAS:  You are welcome.

RODNEY:  You spoke to Yarr; it was Jim, I believe.  I find myself extremely interested in his interaction with his ponies.  You spoke of the Sumafi being prone to create repetitiveness and rigidity in their focus, which I understand is so they might pay more attention to what’s really happening underneath, and that this was modified somewhat by his alignment.

I wonder if you would address how that might be modified by my particular alignment, which is Sumari.  In other words, how would being aligned Sumari modify the expression of the Sumafi, of being repetitive or rigid?  How does that alignment interact with the essence family?

ELIAS:  Very well.  I may express to you, in this, in like manner to many other individuals, Michael also holds these two families.

In this, you do continue to create repetition, and in some expressions, you also hold to the rigidity of certain expressions, but the influence of the Sumari allows for a flexibility in change.  Individuals that may be aligned with the family of Sumari and belonging to the Sumafi family shall express a type of diversity, so to speak, in their repetitiveness.

What I am expressing ... which exhibits itself similarly, as you may allow yourself to view, in your experiences and in those experiences that Michael creates also.  You may be expressing a rigidness in holding to certain expressions throughout your focus, certain methods that you have chosen, and you may be creating a repetitiveness in how you allow yourselves to be assimilating and interactive with information, but you also offer yourselves a variety of experience and more of an ease in the expression of change.

This is the influence of the Sumari aspect, for the quality which is incorporated quite strongly by the Sumari is their allowance for the expression of change in an ongoing expression, which offers you a diversity of experience.

RODNEY:  I’m reminded of your term of entrepreneur ...

ELIAS:  Correct!

RODNEY:  ... of experience! (Laughing)

ELIAS:  Correct, my friend!  Ha ha ha ha ha!

Now; you may view throughout your focus that you choose certain methods of assimilating information.  You may also recognize that in some situations, your interactions with other individuals may, in a manner of speaking, follow a particular pattern, so to speak.

And in this, you create your repetition, and as you assimilate information, you create specific methods in which you allow yourself an objective understanding through particular thought processes and manners of attention.  You also create repetition in what you pay attention to in relation to your communications with yourself and in relation to other individuals.

Therefore, if you are allowing yourself to be investigating and paying attention, I shall express to you that you may quite easily view the expressions that you have created throughout your focus that are repetitious or that express a rigidity.

The Sumari influence, as expressed through the alignment — and therefore the dominating objective expression of direction, so to speak — is in a manner of speaking creating an allowance of what YOU perceive to be a softening effect of that rigidity, for although in actuality it is not, it APPEARS in this manner to you within your perceptions, for you allow for an ease in movement in change.  You are not unsettled, so to speak, in the expression of change.  You allow yourselves to flow easily in the movement of change, and this type of expression also, generally speaking — although it is not a rule — does not create an expression of fear in association with unfamiliarity.

RODNEY:  Okay.  Do I get from what you just said that the family that you align to speaks more to your objective experience in a focus, and that the essence family to which you are belonging speaks more to the subjective component?

ELIAS:  It is expressed objectively, but the qualities of the essence family that you align with shall be expressed objectively more obviously and shall be in an obvious intensity.  Your experiences shall reflect the qualities of the family that you hold the alignment to in that particular focus much more strongly.  You shall exhibit objective expressions and qualities in association with the essence family that you are belonging to, but they shall be more recessive.

RODNEY:  Okay, I thank you.  I’d like to ask you about two dreams I’ve had recently.

ELIAS:  Very well.

RODNEY:  One, I am observing many, many, many, different shapes and forms, and I am aware that they are alive.  They are beings of some kind, and they are simple forms, and I’m not interacting with them.  I’m just watching them go by, but they’re clearly alive to me.  Then I meet one which is ... which reminds me of a human form, but isn’t.  The next thing you know, I’m engaged in a sexual act with this one.  That’s the end of the dream, which leads me to another question, and that is, as a dream symbol, my engaging in sexual intercourse with a person in my dream, or sexual activity, has in the past, in some dreams, spoke to me of a major change in my relationship with that person, and sometimes the relationship has improved dramatically.  That has been my experience, and I’m just wondering, if I don’t use the sexual act as a dream symbol, which signifies a deepening of my relationship with that symbol ... yeah, that dream symbol. (Pause)

ELIAS:  And your question?

RODNEY:  My question is, is that an accurate interpretation of the dream symbol, the sexual part?

ELIAS:  Yes.  It is an identification that you have created in symbology within yourself to be expressing an allowance for more openness and more of an allowance of intimacy between yourself and any other aspect of consciousness.  It may not necessarily be defined in relation to another individual.  It may be expressed, as in this dream imagery, as symbology that you present to yourself in movement in creating more of an expression of intimacy in relationship with YOU.

RODNEY:  Okay.  My question regarding this particular dream is whether or not, one, I was actually viewing life forms in other dimensions, and two, whether I was just noticing, in a somewhat dramatic way, the life forms period.

ELIAS:  You are allowing yourself to view other focuses that are expressed in other dimensions.  You are correct.

Now; these focuses are aspects of you as essence.  Therefore, the imagery that you are presenting to yourself in this dream expression is a movement into the creation and exploration of relationship with yourself in an expression of intimacy.

RODNEY:  Wow.  Okay.  I find that very encouraging! (Elias chuckles)

Another one — I had a dream, and it’s a long dream, but in it ... first of all, it started out in a park-like setting, and everybody disappeared.  I wanted to be with them, so I started running after them — I had been delayed — and I found myself running down the road with this individual, a male who had a physical physique of Mercury or a Greek god or whatever.  I discovered that I could not only run as fast as he could, I could run faster if I so chose.

This dream had two aspects to it that I found quite remarkable.  One is, I looked over at him and saw beautiful, beautiful patterns on his skin.  One was a rainbow effect.  Then I was aware that I had a body similar to his, and I had beautiful, beautiful emblems on mine too.  I believe they were of various life forms, like lobsters or beetles or insects or whatever that were also very beautiful.  Then there was a metamorphosis, so to speak.  There were individuals, and I became one of them at one point, very human-type bodies, all fully clothed, but they had pipes sticking out of them, like they had pipes in their hips and they kind of hung down inside their pant legs and they were very cumbersome.  I was hoping you might suggest what this dream might be about and what those two images might signify.

ELIAS:  I may express to you that this dream imagery follows quite closely with your other dream imagery.

Let me express to you, Zacharie, what do you define as your identification of imagination? (15-second pause)

RODNEY:  Elias?

ELIAS:  What is your expression of imagination?


ELIAS:  What is your definition of imagination?  Do you define this to be reality? (Pause)

RODNEY:  Um ... you got me stuck.

ELIAS:  What is it that produces imagination?

RODNEY:  My essence, my very core being.  It comes from deep within.

ELIAS:  And what is expressed in imagination — invention or what is known?

RODNEY:  I would say both.

ELIAS:  You are correct.

RODNEY:  But the invention would be something...

ELIAS:  ...which is known.

RODNEY:  Well, on some level it’s known. (Elias chuckles)  If it was invention, it would be very creative invention.  It wouldn’t be trite invention.

ELIAS:  The invention is merely the expression and manifestation of what is known, the exploration of creating a manifestation of what is known, and an exploration of what is known.

RODNEY:  That’s all invention?

ELIAS:  Yes.

RODNEY:  Imagination, then, is bringing to the surface that which is not previously known.

ELIAS:  It is an allowance for the expression, within objective recognition, of that which is known.

RODNEY:  Of that which is known.

ELIAS:  Yes.  Therefore, in this definition, look to your dream imagery and what you have presented to yourself in this dream imagery, which appears to you to be the expression of imagination and therefore holds significance merely in symbology, but not in what you identify as reality.

RODNEY:  Oh, a very important distinction.  Okay.

ELIAS:  In this, I may express to you, many times in the translation of dream activity, you create imagery, and in that imagery, many times you are creating symbology which may be an indication of some other aspect of information that you are offering to yourself, and it may not be interpreted or translated literally necessarily.  But this is not to say that this is an absolute in the action that you create in dream imagery.

Now; there is an aspect of translation in all of your dream imagery, but the translation may not necessarily always be symbology, which you define as non-reality.

RODNEY:  Right.  It could be objective information, or a translation into objective information, of a reality.

ELIAS:  Correct, of known reality, which this is the expression of imagination.

As you create some experiences in relation to dream imagery, you are not necessarily creating the identification of symbology.  What you are engaging in dreams, such as what you have offered in your example, is the interpretation into your objective awareness of other manifestations of known realities.

Now; be aware that these are a translation, for in projecting your attention into that actual reality, it may appear differently than it shall appear to you within THIS physical reality.  Your translation shall be created in relation to what is known in THIS reality, for this is your base or framework of reference.

RODNEY:  Okay.  So in this particular dream, the individual who had the beautiful body and the beautiful emblems on them, and designs, I would interpret that from my perspective in this focus as being that there was something wondrous and beautiful in that being that was shining through his physical form.

ELIAS:  Correct.

RODNEY:  And I would interpret....

ELIAS:  And you assign wondrous decoration to the form as your interpretation of that beauty.

RODNEY:  Yes, and I would interpret the other expression, the people with the pipes, as one of ... I’ll use the term ugliness.

ELIAS:  And cumbersome, with laborious movement.

RODNEY:  Correct, and there are other interpretations that I would place on it.

ELIAS:  Correct.

RODNEY:  And if I’m correct in remembering the dream, I metamorphosed from one form into another form at one point.

ELIAS:  Correct.

RODNEY:  And I would interpret that as being that those beings could exhibit both.

ELIAS:  No.  This is your allowance of yourself to be recognizing that you ARE all of these manifestations, and your translation is that you shall create this metamorphosis rather than the expression of merely turning your attention from one to another or blinking from one to another.

RODNEY:  So these two different forms were two distinct manifestations of essence, so to speak.

ELIAS:  Yes, in two different dimensional expressions.

RODNEY:  I was going to ask you that.  So although they interacted in my dream, they were not both from the same dimension.

ELIAS:  No.  They interact within your dream imagery as your communication to yourself, within your translation, that you ARE both of these manifestations, and also yourself.

RODNEY:  That I am both of these manifestations, and I am myself also.

ELIAS:  Correct, simultaneously.

And in this, you create an association with the previous dream imagery, in continuing to be exploring your beginnings of your movement in objectively creating an intimate relationship with YOU.

RODNEY:  Wow.  Okay.

ELIAS:  And the manner in which you create this relationship is to be paying attention, and to be interactive with YOU and the many different aspects of you.

RODNEY:  Wow.  I look forward to this continuing! (Elias chuckles)  That’s exciting! (They both laugh)  Another experience!


RODNEY:  Another quick question.  I have been very moved over the course of my lifetime by Kahlil Gibran and a book called The Prophet.  I’ve read it five or six times, and I intend to read it a few more times.  Do I have any connection with the focus of Kahlil Gibran? (Pause)

ELIAS:  In objective relationship, no.  But in the study of this philosophy, yes.

RODNEY:  You mean I’ve studied this philosophy in other focuses?

ELIAS:  Yes.

RODNEY:  Okay.  So it has been the subject matter of my interest in other focuses.

ELIAS:  Yes.

RODNEY:  Fascinating.

ELIAS:  (Chuckling)  And are you not quite fascinating? (Laughing)

RODNEY:  Well, I guess so! (Laughing)

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha ha!

RODNEY:  You surprise me every time I talk to you!

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha!

RODNEY:  One last question, I think.

ELIAS:  Very well.

RODNEY:  Unless something else comes up! (Laughing, and Elias chuckles)  You once reminded me that I surround myself with shrines, and I’m in the mood to cast a few of them into the dumpster behind my house!


RODNEY:  One case in point is, I have a stack of journals that’s almost two feet high.  That might be a small exaggeration, but at least a foot, and I find them a distraction.  I almost never go back and read them, and my desire is to burn these or to just throw them away.  But I also am aware that there are several, maybe a dozen or so, dreams that stand out that have been written into those journals, and I’m not so sure I want to throw those away.  I think I’d like to go back and look at them as an aid in interpreting my current dreams or being with my current dreams, and I wondered if you would comment about that.  I sense that you would encourage me to get rid of them.  On the other hand, there are a few very powerful dreams that I had which I sense were not just of the moment, but really spoke to larger issues in my life.  Would you comment on the value of my preserving those, and at least taking a look at them?

ELIAS:  I shall express to you, Zacharie, quite simply, this is your choice.

RODNEY:  Ha ha!  I knew you would say that! (Laughing)

ELIAS:  It holds significance merely to you individually in either choice, and the question that you may pose to yourself is the identification of that significance.  What is your identification of significance to retaining these writings or discarding these writings?  In your thought process in the discarding of them, you express a desire to be discarding of them, but this is not the objective action that you engage.  Therefore, your behavior does not mirror your thought.

RODNEY:  Okay.  I’ve made a decision to trash all but some of the dreams.  I haven’t done it yet.  Correct?

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha ha!

RODNEY:  My intention or my identification of significance in keeping some of those dreams is, they may help me widen my awareness of where I am in the moment.

ELIAS:  I am understanding of the explanation you are offering to yourself.  What I am expressing to you is that you may be examining within yourself what you are holding to that creates the outward expression in the behavior of continuing possession of the books.

In this, quite genuinely, it matters not that you continue to hold them or that you discard them.  This is entirely your choice.  I am merely offering the suggestion to you that you allow yourself to identify what you are holding to that manifests itself outwardly in the expression of retaining these journals that you continue to express to yourself you wish NOT to retain.  This is....

RODNEY:  A question with a very long answer! (Laughing)

ELIAS:  Ha ha!  This is significant imagery in relation to your subject matter that you initially presented in this question.

RODNEY:  Which is?

ELIAS:  That of the shrines.

RODNEY:  Right.  Well, on one hand, they feel like a millstone around my neck, and I have the sense that I would feel lighter and freer and more in the moment if I got rid of them.

ELIAS:  But you hold to them for they are familiar and for this creates an expression of trust within you, for you offer this to yourself objectively for you do NOT trust that you have already assimilated that information and that you ARE creating a widening of your awareness, and that this needs not be reinforced through past experiences.

RODNEY:  Oh, that is so true!  One of the things that concerns me is, even if I go back and look at those dreams, that I’ve moved a little bit since I created them.

ELIAS:  Quite, and your interpretation of them shall be different now.

RODNEY:  Than what they were then.

ELIAS:  Correct.

RODNEY:  Because of my shift in perspective.

ELIAS:  Correct.

RODNEY:  And my movement.  Well, that says a lot. (Elias chuckles)  Okay, that helps me.  I don’t believe this, I seem to ... oh, there is one more here!  I’ve had, over the course of many years from time to time, a thought or a desire to somehow get underneath my thoughts and become aware of like where they are coming from.

ELIAS:  And this is what you are engaging now.

RODNEY:  You know what I did?  I journaled on this the other day, and what came to mind, the first time I looked at this, was that I wanted to do that because I wanted to censor my thoughts, to determine which were the good ones and which were the bad ones before I added....

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha!

RODNEY:  Yeah, right — I hear you laughing on that one!  And then several days later I journaled again.  I reread what I had written, and I almost choked on the judgments that I had heaped on this one expression. (They both laugh)  And I got to see that that thought, which has occurred to me many times over the years, is very much a precursor to what I’m doing right now, in moving into widening my awareness and understanding and going deeper into my thought process.

I don’t know why I wanted to tell you that, (Elias chuckles) except that over the last month, I have been overwhelmed in many moments, and it seemed I was incapable of a thought which was not duplicitous in judgment, and my journaling on this showed me how cleverly I am imbedded in judgmental thoughts in just about everything I come up against.  I guess that’s a sign of my noticing, if nothing else.

ELIAS:  Quite!

RODNEY:  Oh my. (Laughing)

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha!  Be encouraged, my friend ...

RODNEY:  I think that’s what I’m asking you for — your encouragement!

ELIAS:  ... for were you not noticing, you also would not be recognizing that you hold choice.  Therefore, offer encouragement to yourself also, that this is not an expression of noticing that you may create additional judgment upon yourself, but that you may recognize your freedom in your ability of choice.

RODNEY:  Thank you.

ELIAS:  You are very welcome, my friend.

RODNEY:  One last question popped into my mind.  Would this person who I identified as B.P. who I’ve shared 14 other focuses with, in a sequential kind of way, how many of them are future? (Pause)

ELIAS:  Three.

RODNEY:  Three.  Okay, I thank you so much.  We’ve covered so much territory here!

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha!  As always, ha ha! (Rodney laughs)  And I shall be anticipating our continued interaction and our objective meeting once again in physical proximity futurely!

RODNEY:  Yes, shortly!

ELIAS:  Ha ha!

RODNEY:  Listen, with all of this dizziness and shortness of breath and wearing myself out, have I created all of this ... or let me say this.  I am creating fatigue with mild exertions.  Have I created a flu or something to aid me in my focusing my attention on myself?

ELIAS:  Not yet!

RODNEY:  This is all an aspect of my smoking cigarettes, eh?

ELIAS:  And its ability to be distracting! (Rodney laughs)  Ha ha ha!

RODNEY:  Sure.  I almost knocked myself out with three or four of these!

ELIAS:  Ha ha ha ha ha!  Interesting choice of experience, my friend the entrepreneur!

RODNEY:  (Laughing)  Well, I’ve already chosen it to be a temporary experience.

ELIAS:  Ah, and I shall be greatly encouraging of that action, ha ha!

RODNEY:  Alright! (They both laugh)

ELIAS:  I express to you tremendous affection, my friend, and anticipate our continued interaction.  Be watchful for my energy.

RODNEY:  Thank you, and I certainly will, with love.

ELIAS:  To you in tremendous lovingness, au revoir.

RODNEY:  Au revoir.

Elias departs at 4:52 PM.