Sunday, January 8, 2017 (Private/Phone)

Participants: Mary (Michael) and Jean (Lyla)

[Note: An audio for this session was not available, so the transcript was finalized without being able to listen to that.]

ELIAS: Good afternoon!

JEAN: Oh, good afternoon, Elias! (Elias chuckles) It is a thrill to engage you again.

ELIAS: And what have you been engaging?

JEAN: I have been engaging a lot of change in my life.

ELIAS: Ah!

JEAN: Ah! Yeah. And you know, diving deep into this material and applying it. I just want to kind of talk to you about some of those things today.

ELIAS: Very well.

JEAN: What I’d like to start out with is since I last talked with you, my mother disengaged, which was very traumatic. Not that I wasn’t expecting it, but just in the manner that it happened and the reactions of the families and stuff. I became aware of a lot of the constructs that I had and a lot of the beliefs.

ELIAS: Ah! Such as?

JEAN: Oh, my god! Such as, she’s been in hospice for a very long time. You can either live your life for those final years with the person and decide, “Well, I’m not going to do anything until my mother dies,” but eight months ago my friend and I decided we’re going to Europe, we’re going to see Beethoven’s Ninth at Royal Albert Hall, we’re going to go see other Elias people and stuff.

So of course while I’m in Europe, that’s when my mother decides to go into the last stages of disengagement. And I’m faced with [asking myself], “Do you come back because my other sister is screaming and yelling that Mother’s finally dying and I need to be here and stuff?” Which, I decided to stay in Europe.

And then when I get back here, I’m going through a tremendous amount of jetlag reactions, and then my sister is calling and screaming and crying from hospice that I need to be down there because Mother’s dying and her daughter should be there. So… But I still waited a couple of days because I respected the fact that my body was still adjusting.

And then I picked up a rental car to take down there, and you know what? The rental car, I didn’t like it. It had a lot of cigarette smoke in it, so I took it back. Missed another day. I got another car and then just hit tons of traffic going down. And she disengaged before I got there. (Sighs)

But at some level, Elias, I didn’t want to be there – (emotionally) you know, during the end. And what I wanted to talk to you about is, the seminar that weekend was so serendipitous about choosing. An individual chooses when to disengage, and I just like to think that she knew I was on my way but kind of honored my wish not to be there. So…

ELIAS: And I would agree.

JEAN: Yeah. But then, faced with the family constructs of “Well, if you had just pulled it together more and just toughed it out and put your nose to the grindstone, you could have been here,” it’s just going through those constructs. And as you say, until you experience them experientially, it’s hard to move through them. And I’m proud of myself for what I did. I honored myself first. And so, bravo me.

ELIAS: I would agree. And I would acknowledge you in relation to those constructs of what you are supposed to do and why.

JEAN: Yeah.

ELIAS: And that is not necessarily valid.

JEAN: Yeah.

ELIAS: What could you have done?

JEAN: Nothing.

ELIAS: And what difference would it have made?

JEAN: Nothing, other than it would have been a payoff for my sister that was doing the screaming and the yelling because that is HER belief –

ELIAS: Correct.

JEAN: – to engage the drama.

ELIAS: Correct.

JEAN: Yes.

ELIAS: For in that, there was nothing for you to do. The outcome would have been the same.

JEAN: Absolutely. And I –

ELIAS: In that, I would say to you the factor that an individual is choosing to disengage, what is the significance of you being present? That is not for that individual.

JEAN: And Elias, that was my perspective.

ELIAS: It is not for the individual that you would be present. It is for you.

JEAN: Right.

ELIAS: And it doesn’t affect that individual’s choice. If it is important for you to be present because you want to be, or because you choose to be for your own reasons, that is entirely acceptable. But it is also entirely acceptable for you to not be present, if you don’t have reasons to be present. Because it is only for you that you would choose in either direction.

It has no bearing on the choice of the individual that is disengaging. It doesn’t add to their experience. It doesn’t change how or when they disengage. And let me express to you, my friend, do not allow any expression from any other individual in judgment of your choice to be affecting of you, or to be bothersome to you – because your choice was not wrong.

JEAN: Elias, I understand that. But thank you for that.

ELIAS: You are welcome .

JEAN: I was honoring my choice, but there still… It’s that whole thing of what you believe versus your beliefs.

ELIAS: Yes.

JEAN: And sometimes until the rubber hits the road, you’re not aware of the difference.

ELIAS: Correct.

JEAN: So this was a tremendous opportunity for me to stick to what I wanted, ultimately.

ELIAS: I would agree.

JEAN: Yeah. Was my mother a final focus?

ELIAS: No.

JEAN: She was not. I’m wondering, since she did have a bit of dementia/Alzheimer’s before she died, did she skip objective imagery? Or did she go into objective imagery?

ELIAS: Ah! That is an interesting and significant question. For the factor that an individual, while they are in physical focus, moves in a direction of choosing Alzheimer’s or some form of dementia does not necessarily affect what they generate once they blink in.

JEAN: Right.

ELIAS: In this, that is merely a method that they are engaging while they continue in physical focus. And for many of them, it is a method leading to death. For some, it may not be the method leading to death. It may be an exploration of other aspects of themself, other time frameworks. There are many different [inaudible] can be generated. But any of it does not necessarily affect, once they blink in nonphysical at all. And therefore, yes, they do create objective imagery. But, as I have expressed previously, anything that was involved in their method to disengage, such as dementia or Alzheimer’s, they won’t remember and they don’t experience any of that.

JEAN: Right. So, she is in objective imagery now? Is that correct?

ELIAS: Yes.

JEAN: Oh. That’s going to be interesting. Thank you.

ELIAS: In what capacity?

JEAN: Well, she had a lot of beliefs. She had a lot of beliefs, at least from my perception, to move through.

ELIAS: But I would also express that perhaps you incorporate somewhat of an askew perception of what they are doing in that objective imagery. They are not addressing to beliefs. They don’t address to beliefs. They merely create objective imagery that mimics what is familiar to them in relation to physical reality, and in a capacity that is comfortable for them.

JEAN: Okay. Okay.

ELIAS: That it is not a matter of addressing to beliefs, for within nonphysical, that is a moot point. Once they remember their death, then they will choose what direction they want to move in, but eventually they will move in a direction of shedding those beliefs and shedding that objective awareness. And therefore, it is not necessary –

JEAN: Oh, so the objective imagery, the shedding of the beliefs, comes after the objective imagery?

ELIAS: Yes. Yes.

JEAN: Okay. Thank you.

ELIAS: And they do not address those beliefs. They merely shed them. It is a process that is relatively quick. And it is a process that, in your terms, in a physical capacity would be very similar to removing your clothing.

JEAN: Wow.

ELIAS: You don’t necessarily analyze your clothing while you are removing them; you merely remove them.

JEAN: Interesting. Interesting.

I’d like to just ask a couple of fun things. My sister’s… essence name Sophie, is she dispersed?

ELIAS: No.

JEAN: Wow. I thought she would be. And then on two focuses. I have something to do with Ernest Hemingway?

ELIAS: Correct.

JEAN: And I feel like I’m a part of that whole Lost Generation. I had a focus in there. So I’m not sure if I’m directing, observing, or if I’m another person within that group, like Gertrude Stein, and that’s why I am drawn to him.

ELIAS: The latter.

JEAN: I’m within that group. I have a focus within that group. So, is this someone if I did some more investigating I could find? Are they notable enough to find?

ELIAS: Yes.

JEAN: Would it be Dorothy Parker?

ELIAS: Congratulations.

JEAN: Woo-hoo! That was fun.

And then the Russian artist that I’ve been spending about a year trying to identify: is it Yelena Polenova?

ELIAS: Congratulations again.

JEAN: Woo-hoo! How about that!

The one that’s still stumping me a little bit is the daughter of Ernest Hemingway. And I’m going to say I’m the second Lucy.

ELIAS: Correct.

JEAN: Okay. Wow.

Elias, I’d like to ask something from my very powerful last session that we had. We were talking about building a foundation, and you mentioned one of the things that I was still addressing to was integrity, because I say my business hasn’t really taken off to what I thought it could potentially do and… What did you mean by that exactly?

ELIAS: And what is your assessment?

JEAN: Well, I know it pertains to all aspects of my life. And since you said that, I’ve been paying careful attention to really putting myself first—

ELIAS: Correct.

JEAN: – in situations that I normally would not have.

ELIAS: Correct. I would express that the situation with your mother is an excellent example.

JEAN: Whoa! Whoa!

ELIAS: For in that, it is a matter of you turning that loyalty to you and expressing that integrity with yourself, not in relation to what you think or believe you should be.

JEAN: Woo.

ELIAS: And you are correct. It does intertwine itself with everything and in every direction. And in that, once again, yes, it is very interconnected. It matters not what it is, it is what you think of as a significant decision or choice, such as the example with your mother or whether it is some insignificant action.

JEAN: Right. And what comes to mind is, if I’m comfortable in my chair and the cat wants in from outside, do I disrupt my immediate comfort to once again go to the door for the thousandth time and open it for a cat?

ELIAS: Precisely.

JEAN: Yeah. I’m starting to get it, Elias.

ELIAS: In this, it is also not black and white, but to understand that it is not as much what the choice is, but what motivates it. Therefore, to use the example of the cat, it is a matter of if you get up to open the door, if your motivation is that you genuinely want to or that it genuinely is important to you, it doesn’t matter to you. Therefore, the choice itself is not what is important. The imagery is not what is important; what is important is the motivation behind it.

If you get up to open the door and you are bothered or you are irritated, even momentarily, even if it is merely a moment – and this is a significant point, for this is how you become accustomed to not paying attention to yourself and not expressing that integrity with yourself, because you do it so frequently in relation to the small actions and they are so quick, and the signal is so quick, that it is very easy to ignore it or to override it. But there is a significant difference in the energy.

When you are motivated to do an action because you should – not because you want to, not because it is unimportant to you, therefore it doesn’t matter to you whether you do it or you don’t do it, and therefore you merely are doing it – but if you are engaging an action from that perspective of you should and you are obligated, that is very different. Then what you are doing is you are expressing that energy that you are less than. Whatever the outside source is, is more important than you.

JEAN: I see that. And in the example that I gave you, I have to watch it because of my core truth of responsibility, that that’s what a responsible pet owner does is do things like that.

ELIAS: Now; now, that is also an excellent point. For in that, once again, it is not black and white. Therefore, it is not a blanket statement. It is a moment-by-moment [inaudible] by experience situation. Therefore, in one moment, that may be the response that you have, to get up and to open the door, and it may not be bothersome to you, and you may not feel anything. And in that, you may be comfortable doing that. In another moment it may not be comfortable, and you may incorporate a brief moment of exasperation or irritation. That is the indicator. In this moment, that piece of responsibility does not apply to that situation. It applies to “me being responsible to me.”

JEAN: Mm-hm. Mm-hm. And Elias, that is what I have been doing more and more. I’ll catch myself in an automatic response of doing something, and it’s like “Okay, let’s pause. Why in this situation am I doing this?”

ELIAS: Excellent.

JEAN: Yeah. That’s coming along.

ELIAS: Congratulations.

JEAN: Yeah. That’s coming along. That’s been huge.

ELIAS: That IS tremendous.

JEAN: Yeah.

I wanted to ask you, did I somewhat recently change primary aspects? I know we kind of go in and out of different aspects, but I’ve just felt very recently a change.

ELIAS: I would express no. You have not changed primary aspects. What you have done is, you have begun to open a door of introducing yourself to you and who you genuinely are. And therefore you, in a manner of speaking, have allowed yourself to meet yourself, who you actually are. (Jean laughs)

Which can be an interesting and pleasant experience in a new discovery in viewing yourself as new individual, and that surprise. I would express that when you notice that you feel different or that you are experiencing differently, or your perception seems different, pause and perhaps express to yourself, “Hello, self!” (Both laugh)

JEAN: “Where the hell have you been?”

ELIAS: “I am being you now.” (Both laugh) “Is it not grand? It is grand.”

JEAN: You know, it is grand. And the next session, I’d like to discuss with you more about my natural flow and me finding my natural flow, and kind of talk to you what I believe it is. But I want to kind of use a whole session for that.

ELIAS: Excellent.

JEAN: Yeah. But I want to bring up something with you, and I know you’re going to… Not that I feel like I’m going to be chastised and it’s okay, because I really need to move through this. Because I do… Goddam. I mean, I really understand now what you said. If I had gotten a lot of money after my life crashed or something, I would have gotten back on that same Ferris wheel and started spinning around and around and around. And I know now, these last five years it’s like you said. I’ve been finding my genuine self and my balance.

ELIAS: I would agree.

JEAN: Yes. But what still sends me into the tailspins, when I have them, is that I know part of my natural flow is I really want to travel a lot, and I really do like episodes of luxury and I do like luxury items. I know now I don’t want as much stuff and I want more experiences as a priority in my life versus stuff. But what will wig me out is that I know I’m doing that whole construct of “Here I am at my age and I can’t get back on and produce to make – at least like I used to – to make up for all those years.”

ELIAS: Ah!

JEAN: Yeah.

ELIAS: Age and making up for.

JEAN: Yes. Yes, I admit, age and making up for. And we had… all our investments went away. And I want to tie this in with a couple of other things, if I may. It has been so difficult to get all my possessions out of California, number one, because of the lack of funds to do it, or my… Well, yeah. Two, Jared’s mother’s passed and we were anticipating some funds from that estate to kind of help us along right now, and those have been held up in court. And then three, Elias – oh god! Please help me with this one. My mother always indicated to me that her estate would be split between one of my sisters and myself. And on one of my talks to her before she passed, when she was in a lucid moment, she says, “You know, you’re getting half the house. It’s going to be okay.” But then when she passed, the will gave everything to my other sister. And I’ve just kind of been blown away by all of this, Elias. And then (sighs)… And then sometimes when I’m just quiet, I’ll hear “You know, it’s really going to work out,” that somehow this is to my advantage. Can we talk about this?

ELIAS: We can.

JEAN: Okay.

ELIAS: What is your assessment thus far of how this is to your advantage?

JEAN: Well, it’s kept me from jumping back on the wheel, on how I used to do things and how I used to live my life. I’m going to say another thing that I was just kind of shocked by that I realized is that… You know I’ve had to move through this whole thing of shame and… I think I’m getting through that, with losing everything. But by having nothing and that nobody can take anything from you, because it’s all gone, after four years according to our laws all debt is time-barred. And it’s been four years. Then after seven years, this catastrophe by law has to be erased from your credit report. And so I was able to see the silver lining in all that, because I’m almost at that seven years. And it’s given me a form of hope.

But let’s just talk about that. Did I hit on it?

ELIAS: I would acknowledge everything that you have expressed.

Now; I would also add to that. You are not starting over. That is the first piece.

JEAN: Okay.

ELIAS: It is not a matter of you have sloughed everything and now you must start over from the beginning. No, you are not. You are not repeating. You are not doing over. You are ending those chapters. And let me express to you, when you are reading a book, if you are reading a story in a book that has many chapters [inaudible] book flow, when one chapter ends or one section of the book ends, what does it do? It does not start over.

JEAN: It flows into the next chapter.

ELIAS: Precisely. And how does it do that? It incorporates all the information from the previous chapter, and to some extent it evolves them.

JEAN: It evolves them.

ELIAS: That is what you are doing. I would express that you are not starting over. And let me also express to you, in relation to age, this is ludicrous. (Jean laughs) I would say to you, you have incorporated a time framework in which you have experienced a lot in the years that you have occupied physical focus to this point. Correct?

JEAN: Yes.

ELIAS: And you are only at your midpoint. (Pause)

Let me express to you, at your midpoint, that is not a point in which you are viewing your age and expressing to yourself or moving in the perception that you have no time left to do whatever it is that you want to do, or to generate that new chapter or to flow and evolve into what that is. Yes, you do.

You have as many years as you have already experienced. And let me express to you, in that, in relation to age and years, it is the same as the first half, let us say. At any point within that first half you could have chosen to stop. You could have chosen to disengage.

JEAN: Right.

ELIAS: I would express that the potential or the likelihood of you choosing at this point is the same as it was then. Meaning, you have no more of a potential or probability of disengaging in this half, before you complete this half, as you did in the other half before you completed that.

Therefore, stop concerning yourself with age. What do you feel? Are you so decrepit?

JEAN: Oh god, no! (Elias laughs) I’m getting myself and I am in outstanding shape.

ELIAS: Ah! Then what are you concerned about? I would express, you have a vibrant energy. You are healthy. You are active. I would express that this is the time to be moving into the new chapter. But those old chapters have contributed to the evolution of the presentment of the new chapters.

And in that, there are significant pieces. There are significant pieces about not being dependent. Over previous sessions, I gave you one statement that you have pondered (chuckles) and that you have been able to grasp and to be begin to explore and to see the affectingness of that and what it meant. And now, I give you another.

JEAN: Okay.

ELIAS: To not be dependent. And that is not merely about people – dependent on things; dependent on creations; dependent on situations; dependent on how things move; dependent on time; dependent on money.

You exist in a world that those are factors of your world, but not for you to depend on them. Your choices, your life, your movement does not hinge on any of them. Therefore, it is not dependent on any of those factors.

Your choices are not dependent upon what other individuals do or what their choices are, or what money is or what money isn’t, or what you have or what you possess. Your choices are not dependent on anything. They are yours to express in whatever manner you choose, always to your greatest benefit. And the more you place yourself in that primary position and move from that, the more you will understand this and the more you will automatically be expressing it.

You are subject to nothing and no one. Everything is your choice.

JEAN: Elias, I hear you. And I know I’m going to be pondering this.

ELIAS: I express to you, my friend, an encouragement that as you lessen the importance of many of these expressions that you believed were important previously, and you move more in the direction of what is genuinely important to you, some of those expressions that you thought were important you will much more easily manifest, because they are not so important, because they are not your primary focus of attention – such as money or even possessions.

I am not discounting that individuals incorporate actions to objects, to possessions, and that they appreciate them that they want them, that they like them, that they may even love them. (Jean laughs) And I am not discounting that in any capacity. But I would also express that in that, there is a distinction that you can appreciate physical manifestations, you can even want them, but that they don’t occupy the position of being primarily important.

JEAN: But Elias, the example of everything in California, I mean I’ve lived five or six years without them, and really I could do without them, but they are just things that I would like to have back, that brought me –

ELIAS: Such as?

JEAN: Some jewelry that was of the family, some of the furniture that I was very fond of, some family history items and stuff. And…

ELIAS: Ah. Now stop. I am understanding what you are expressing and I acknowledge that. I would also express to you, if you have incorporated that length of time without these physical manifestations, why do you not create your own family expressions? (Jean sighs) I understand sentimental value. I understand and acknowledge the value of heritage and family attachments. But I would also express to you that you can create your own expressions of them also.

JEAN: You know, I hear that and of course… I mean, just to be honest with you, I want to come back… How do I recreate a $100,000 diamond that was my grandfather’s and very dear to me? And it’s beautiful. I mean, how to I recreate that?

ELIAS: You don’t recreate that. It is not a matter of recreating. It is not a matter of redoing. It is not a matter of starting over. It is a matter of creating, not recreating.

JEAN: Well, how do I –

ELIAS: But I am not expressing to you NOT to move in the direction of acquiring those objects. Do not misunderstand.

JEAN: Okay.

ELIAS: I am not discouraging you from that. And I am not expressing to you that you shouldn’t acquire those objects, if they are important to you and if you want them. I would encourage you to move in those directions. Be creative. Use your imagination and employ different, creative expressions to allow yourself to acquire those manifestations again. For they are important to you.

I am merely offering you other information, in which –

JEAN: Okay. Okay.

ELIAS: Additional information to allow you to view a larger picture.

JEAN: Okay.

ELIAS: Whatever your grandfather created was his creation. You can create, also. And you can generate your own heirlooms.

JEAN: I know. I just… I feel myself, I just want to be like an old mad donkey and pin my ears and say, “But it ain’t!” You know, so far it hasn’t happened. And I mean, I hear you. I’m just expressing how I really feel. I just –

ELIAS: I am understanding.

JEAN: I feel like… Elias, you know the magic doesn’t happen anymore. You know, I… Yes, I’m appreciative of the things I do have. I really am. I am appreciative of the heating oil I have. My cats are healthy. I have my health. But I haven’t been able to manifest those things like I used to. Just the magic, you know. And I miss my horses terribly.

ELIAS: I would express to you, the magic will reappear [inaudible] that, in a manner of speaking, the more comfortable you become with you and the more you stop discounting yourself and fighting with yourself about the past. When you stop punching yourself (Jean laughs) for the past, that will allow for the magic to return.

And let me express to you, you and I have not engaged in-depth conversations about the past or about your horses. We have touched on the subject and we have incorporated moments of dance with it, to a limited degree. But what I would express to you is that there is another piece of this subject of dependence: letting go; that your present is dependent on that past.

JEAN: I’m not really understanding, because it’s not necessarily those horses. I think it’s… It’s I just don’t feel like I’m in the position to incorporate horses back into my life again.

ELIAS: But you could. Not perhaps –

JEAN: Due to the overwhelm.

ELIAS: Not perhaps in the capacity that you were previously, but you could engage them in other avenues, and be involved with them and interact with them and even express an intimacy with them, merely in a different manner. That is a possibility.

And in that, it is not a possibility because of that dependency on that past.

JEAN: It’s not a possibility because of the dependency on the past. Does that mean because I want it to be like it was in the past? I’m not understanding.

ELIAS: I would express that because it is so difficult for you to let go, that creates that dependency. You can’t even entertain any other, different type of expression, different type of interaction, because the past isn’t fixed.

The past doesn’t need to be fixed. It is what it is. And it belongs where it is, in the past.

JEAN: So, can I assume since what happened happened, that my natural flow is not to be involved with performance horses? I mean, because I really…

ELIAS: I would express that that may not necessarily be absolutely black and white, but not in the capacity that you were.

JEAN: Can you explain that?

ELIAS: In that, you experimented. You experienced. You did it. You didn’t flow with that. And I am not expressing in a black-and-white direction that you would never flow in interaction with performance horses, but definitely not in the capacity that you did previously.

JEAN: In terms of like in this case racing, it’s just my natural flow isn’t to be involved in racing horses, involved in racing horses? Or that it was too much work, I got into a horse overwhelm?

ELIAS: What I would express, once again, this is an example of how difficult this is for you. You are incorporating a tremendous difficulty in listening to what I am expressing to you.

In this, it is not necessarily that you wouldn’t flow with performance horses – RACING horses – merely not in the capacity that you did previously. In the capacity that you were previously, I agree: No, you don’t flow in that direction. Does that mean that you could not interact or engage with performance horses? No, it does not. But it means that if you were to engage with those types of horses, that you would flow in a very different direction, in a very different capacity and role.

JEAN: Okay.

ELIAS: But they are not the only horses that you can engage.

But I am expressing specifically with that group of horses, that they also are not a group that you entirely eliminate, that that group of horses you can never engage with because you would never flow with. No; I am not expressing that at all. You could, but not in the capacity that you did previously. You did that. You experienced it. You learned that you don’t flow in that direction.

JEAN: Okay.

ELIAS: It did not allow you to be you and to express yourself genuinely and freely.

JEAN: Okay. Elias, the timer went off and I want to honor Mary’s time. Thank you.

ELIAS: Very well.

JEAN: Thank you. Because I know I’m being a little pissy because –

ELIAS: No. You are not.

JEAN: But thank you. And… because –

ELIAS: I would express –

JEAN: Goddam, I want to move through this, Elias. Fucking A, you know. I want to move through this.

ELIAS: Don’t discount yourself.

JEAN: Yeah.

ELIAS: I would express to you, you are definitely not being pissy. (Both laugh)

I shall be anticipating our next meeting, perhaps soon.

JEAN: I hope so. Thank you, Elias, from the bottom of my heart.

ELIAS: My dear friend, in wondrous lovingness to you and great encouragement as always, au revoir.

JEAN: Au revoir.

(Elias departs after 1 hour 1 minute)

©2017 Mary Ennis. All Rights Reserved.

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Copyright 2017 Mary Ennis, All Rights Reserved.