Tuesday, June 14, 2022 (Private/Phone)

Participants: Mary (Michael) and Brenda (Leonora)


ELIAS: Good morning!

BRENDA: Good morning, Elias.

ELIAS: (Chuckles) And how shall we begin?

BRENDA: That’s a good question. (Both laugh) I’ve been asking myself that for a few days as this approached (laughs) and I’m feeling a bit more relief lately. I’ve kind of been overwhelmed and struggling more than… certainly more than I’ve been comfortable with, since our last session. And so I wanted to talk today about a few things. I feel like I’m moving forward, gaining clarity, but I could really use some insight from you, and just help me see some things maybe I’m not seeing, that kind… So I wanted to talk about a physical manifestation I’m having, that I think’s related back to work balance, talk about a pretty scary event with R [1] and me and our sailboat, then a situation that’s come up with R’s son. And it seems like if we could talk about those, how they’re connected and if I could get better clarity on it, that would be awesome.

ELIAS: Very well.

BRENDA: (Laughs) All right. Well, let’s start with my hand. I think it was in our March session, I shared with you that I felt like I was ready to create a different balance between work and my creative interest, and with going to talk to my boss, the general manager about reducing my hours, giving up the outreach part of my work and reducing to thirty-two hours. Well, that didn’t go as I anticipated. He was reluctant for me to give up my outreach work because he perceives it as the hardest thing that I do, which wasn’t quite what I perceived it, and he didn’t want to set a precedent of letting someone reduce their hours, particularly to give up the hardest part of their job. So that’s still in limbo.

And in the meantime, I have been waking up with a numbness in my hand, in my right hand, in the morning. I thought I was just sleeping on my hand, but it has gotten over time where I’ve also started having pain in my elbow and shooting up the back of my arm into my shoulder. And while we were travelling in the sailboat, to Ocracoke and back, and it’s this big incident, it got really bad, bad enough I had to the clinic. They did x-rays and an exam, and think it is a nerve that’s being pressed or tension probably, they think in the carpel tunnel area but maybe in the elbow or the shoulder. And so I have a EMG scheduled and three PT appointments scheduled, so that they’re assessing whether there’s damage and whether they need to do surgery. And in the meantime, I’m on gabapentin to help with the pain. And as far as I can tell, that’s helping a lot. Sleeping with the brace on is helping.

So I wanted to see what your insight with that, with what my body’s… My body consciousness is obviously expressing something in stronger and stronger terms. And my impression, of course, is that’s it related to the work balance issue.

ELIAS: I would definitely agree. I would say that what you’re doing is using your body to help you, to help you move in the direction that you want to move in. And in that, what I would say to you is that when you are faced with what you perceive to be opposition, you have a tendency to back away. And even though intellectually you know that there are certain directions that you want to engage, and that you ARE actually giving yourself permission to do that, it’s not simply a matter of giving yourself permission. It’s a matter of recognizing that certain expressions are challenging for you, that when there is a disagreement with another individual, it’s difficult for you because you don’t quite know how to maneuver with disagreement in a manner that is confident and doesn’t involve conflict.

Now; let me say to you, the key to this is not thinking that you can move in a direction that will be expressing what you want and that will not be involving conflict, not thinking that that means that there’s no conflict for anyone. The no-conflict game is about you, is about you not experiencing conflict and not taking responsibility for other people if they do express conflict, and not perceiving that you have to fix that and not perceiving that you have to compromise in order for another individual to not have conflict.

In this, it’s not that you don’t care but that you don’t let that type of expression be bothersome to you. And that’s difficult. It’s difficult in the beginning. It becomes not difficult eventually, but initially it is difficult because that’s not what you’re accustomed to and because you want to be a peacemaker. But that’s not an advantageous or beneficial direction for you, and that’s not your job.

In this, what I would say is, it’s a matter of remembering: cooperation is not an expression in which everyone gets precisely what they want. Compromise is a situation in which everyone gets perhaps a piece of what they want or what they think they want. But in that, they don’t get precisely what they want and because they get somewhat a piece of what they want, it builds resentment.

BRENDA: Ah. Yeah.

ELIAS: Because they don’t get everything that they want. Therefore they have to settle, and settling breeds resentment.

Now; cooperation is a very different expression. Cooperation is honoring you and honoring the other individual.

Now; there is nowhere in that statement that expresses, “You get everything you want and so does the other individual,” because that’s not what cooperation is. It is HONORING both of you. And in honoring you, then you create something in which you are moving in the most beneficial direction. And even when the other individual doesn’t realize it yet, when you are moving in the most beneficial direction for you, you’re also moving in the most beneficial direction for them.

BRENDA: I think that’s where I get hung up, that I think I’m doing what’s beneficial for me but get hung up in that, by doing that I’m taking something from someone else or I’m doing something that’s not beneficial.

ELIAS: No. That is very incorrect. When you are moving in the direction of what is most beneficial to you, then by default the automatic byproduct of that is that you are also expressing the most beneficial for the other individual, even if they don’t recognize it immediately. And many times they don’t, because they’re focused and fixated on what they want, rather than what is beneficial.

BRENDA: Ah!

ELIAS: And what you want, at times, is not necessarily (chuckles) the most beneficial thing.

BRENDA: Right.

ELIAS: But in this, you moving in the direction of what is the most beneficial to you IS coinciding, in a manner of speaking, with what you want. And in that, only in relation to your job. What you want in association with your relationship with your partner is not necessarily the same as what is the most beneficial for you. What is the most beneficial for you is for you to be taking care of you, and not placing yourself in a position of conflict and potential harm.

BRENDA: So—

ELIAS: What—

BRENDA: Go ahead.

ELIAS: — you want is to be engaging time with your partner. But those may not be one and the same.

BRENDA: So is that then related to our sailing incident, where we sailed to Ocracoke with a group of people? We were sailing in pretty high winds under a small craft advisory. We don’t have a small craft, but it was definitely on the threshold of my comfort level. And we ended up running aground in the middle of an opening of a channel, where ferries come in and out, in a squall, took a beating (laughs), I don’t know how long. It seemed like forever, until they could finally get us unstuck. And it was just quite an adventure. But it did feel… I never felt that my life was at stake, but I certainly felt that Enchantress, our boat, was in harm’s way.

And there’s also the episode going on with R’s son, and me not feeling safe staying at his house. Is that related to what you just said?

ELIAS: Yes, all of it. In this, I would say that with the boat, let me express to you – and you already know this – that it is exceedingly, exceedingly rare that a squall will come from nowhere and that you will have absolutely no time. It’s not that it never happens, it does, but it’s very, very, very rare. Therefore what I would say to you is that in relation to that situation, you can see this is all about making choices. Everything is about making choices. And in that, let me express to you that the other two situations, the boat is a metaphor of. Therefore, pay attention and take a lesson from that. Because you are making choices and moving forward in that, and in doing so, in choosing to continue to move in a certain direction, look what you created.

BRENDA: Oh, that was… I mean, I’ve done… And certainly we realize that now about the boat, but I had not related that to the other. And we made some choices that in hindsight we could see. I mean, R just mentioned the other day going forward was (laughs) not the right choice. And oh my goodness, what we experienced because of that. (Laughs)

ELIAS: Yes.

BRENDA: The harm.

ELIAS: Precisely.

BRENDA: I mean oh my gosh, the harm.

ELIAS: In that, because you want to keep up and you want to move with the group and you want to reach a certain destination, you make choices and ignore the warning signs that are happening.

BRENDA: Yeah. And sometimes with that, I know I acquiesce and…

ELIAS: Yes, and that’s one of the warning signs.

BRENDA: Yeah.

ELIAS: And what I would say to you once again, is the boat is a metaphor for the other two situations. In this, with work you’re already creating warning signs with your hand.

BRENDA: Is that, the physical expression with my hand, is that recoverable?

ELIAS: Yes.

BRENDA: If I right the course?

ELIAS: Yes. It is.

BRENDA: I felt like it was getting better doing my bands, and things I had done previously for my shoulder, doing yoga. And also, I was just so stubborn Sunday, I just… We’re doing a lot of gardening, which is great. It’s harvest, on the cusp of harvest, and it’s a lot of fun. And I’ve just been so busy, and I just decided I was going to make a basket. And even though my hand had been bothering me, I made a basket that I designed from techniques that I had done. And I had some challenges with it, but I was just fine. My hand was fine. It felt good, and I had made bread the day before. And like okay, if I am listening to my body and creating balance, I’m getting feedback that that’s helping.

ELIAS: Correct. But it’s not only listening to your body. It’s a matter of balance. It’s about being centered and moving in the direction of health AND well-being.

BRENDA: (Sighs) I write that down, recently. Health and well-being.

ELIAS: It’s not one or the other. It’s both. And in that, when you ignore one, then the other suffers.

BRENDA: Would you…? How would you define them, in the difference between health and well-being?

ELIAS: Health is a matter of function. Health is how you function in the most optimal capacity for you, and what is the most natural for you. Because everyone is different, and therefore the optimal functioning for each person is different. But that would be the expression of health, is functioning. Therefore, the functioning of your mental capacity, the functioning of your emotional capacity, the functioning of your physical capacity. That is health.

Well-being is perception, outlook and your state of mind. Therefore, the maintenance of yourself, your being. Therefore, the wellness of your being.

In this, it is a matter of balancing both of those factors together. And when you don’t, one or the other will express some type of dysfunction. And it, expressing some type of dysfunction, is your signal, your communication to yourself that you’re not expressing that balance and you’re not maintaining both of those. Which is the reason that people create injuries and illnesses or they create depression or they create anxiety. In this, you create expressions of one or the other to alert you that you’re not balanced and that you’re not maintaining health AND well-being. And they very much move in harmony with each other.

Now; what I would say is your body, at this point, is helping you to make choices that are difficult for you to make. It’s difficult for you to move in directions in which you are expressing what is important for you and what is the most beneficial for you, if that appears to be creating some type of opposition or conflict for someone else. You don’t want to be the cause of conflict for someone else. But that is part of the point and part of the lesson, in a manner of speaking, is recognizing that you’re not responsible for that.
You’re not creating the conflict for someone else, just as they’re not creating conflict for you. If you’re having conflict, you’re creating that. If they’re having conflict, they are creating that.

Now; that doesn’t mean that you’re not interplaying with each other. That doesn’t mean that you’re not influencing of each other. But in that, what is ultimately important is that you move in the direction that is the greatest benefit to you.

Now; in that yes, in our previous conversation this was the direction that you were moving in, and you were going to reduce your hours at your job and you were going to move in a different direction in relation to what you do at home and in that, actually moving in the direction of what you and your sister have been wanting to do for years and why you purchased that property.

BRENDA: Yes.

ELIAS: And at this point now, you’re beginning to move in that direction and actually allow yourself to do it.

Now; that was excellent. And then you’re met with some type of opposition.

BRENDA: Yes.

ELIAS: And what do you do with opposition? You shrink back.

BRENDA: I’m sure it’s like crumble. (Laughs)

ELIAS: And in that— No. I would say at this point, you don’t quite crumble anymore.

BRENDA: (Laughs) Good. I don’t have so many pieces to put back.

ELIAS: But you do shrink back.

BRENDA: Yeah.

ELIAS: And you don’t press the issue.

BRENDA: That’s true.

ELIAS: Which it, the reason is as I said: because you don’t know how to move in a direction of not creating conflict, but being confident in what you’re expressing.

Now; confidence means that you will stand in your choice and that you are not swayed by any outside source, and you’re not bothered by the outside sources either. Not that you don’t care about the people, but it’s not about the people. It’s about the subject. It’s not about your boss or whether you like your boss or not. It’s not about him. It’s about the subject and the subject is work. And the subject about work is reducing your hours at work and in that, because that is the greatest benefit to you.

He may move in the direction of expressing opposition to that because he doesn’t quite realize yet that in you moving in the direction of the greatest benefit to you, you’re also creating a benefit to him. When you don’t move in that direction, you create a liability with him. You’re already moving in that direction.

BRENDA: Of creating a liability?

ELIAS: Yes. And the liability may be disability.

BRENDA: Oh. Hm. Yeah.

ELIAS: Which he will have to pay.

BRENDA: Yeah. Oh.

ELIAS: Which is not a benefit to him. Therefore in that, he may not recognize yet that you moving in the greatest benefit is also benefiting him – but he will, eventually. And in that, sooner rather than later, if you don’t honor yourself, if you aren’t moving in the direction of cooperation, then you will create a liability and he will recognize how it’s definitely not a benefit to him.

BRENDA: Yeah. So—

ELIAS: Now; in that, the cooperation, the honoring of you and the honoring of him, as I said, is not necessarily about everyone gets precisely what they want. No. It’s about honoring and therefore moving in the greatest benefit.

Now; you honoring you and moving in your greatest benefit is easy to see, because you are moving in the direction of what you already can recognize as a tremendous benefit to you and it coincides with what you want, also. But I would say that it’s not entirely what you want, because you don’t know entirely what you want yet.

BRENDA: I agree. Yeah. I think I know—

ELIAS: Honoring him is recognizing that you don’t want, you don’t want to be a liability. You don’t want to move in a direction in which he actually is experiencing not only conflict but a particular type of harm. Not that it is physically or mentally harming him personally, but it is a type of harm, moving in a direction in which you are a liability to him, and then creating that liability and that reflects on his position.

BRENDA: Yes. Yeah.

ELIAS: And it does. In this, that is the point of cooperation. It is the expression of honoring both sides, both people.

BRENDA: Could we…? Thank you, first of all, for that. That clarifies so, so many pieces. And definitely, I know what you mean about me not pressing the issue, not wanting to create conflict, and (chuckles) my gosh! I picked a big, a big subject, work, to deal with that. And certainly the physical healing of my body, but also I know what you’re talking about with well-being, just the state of my mind is easy to get off-center right now. And I think it’s particularly challenged also because of the situation with R’s son having these issues yet again, and me feeling that same conflict in that situation. Is that something we could talk through about? About—

ELIAS: It is the same.

BRENDA: Okay.

ELIAS: It is definitely the same.

Now; in this, I would express an acknowledgment that this is even more difficult for you, which is somewhat astounding because I know how difficult the work situation is. But because you have a partnership with this individual, that creates a situation in which it’s even more difficult for you to move in a direction of what you perceive as conflict.

Now; let me express to you: (slowly and clearly) you’re not creating the conflict. You’re simply honoring yourself. This is provided you’re moving in the direction of cooperation and your greatest benefit. And if you are, you are simply moving in a direction in which you are doing precisely that, thinking about and moving in the direction of your greatest benefit. Which, once again, is a matter of listening to yourself and your health and well-being.

Now; in relation to your health and well-being in this situation, once again it is a matter of that cooperation being honoring your partner, that you are not becoming a liability to him either. Because if you are tremendously distressed and concerned, especially in relation to your mental safety – not necessarily physical – but in that, your mental and emotional safety, which means that if your partner is paying significant attention to the other individual and is moving in a direction of accommodating, then he is not necessarily going to be entirely available for you. And therefore, that affects, because you all affect each other.

Now; this isn’t his responsibility, but it does affect your emotional well-being because then what likely ensues is there becomes some factors of resentment.

Now; in that, then you now are once again becoming a liability to him, because you are definitely not going to be supportive. And even if you express in an overt manner that you are being supportive, your energy won’t back it up. Therefore, then that becomes a distraction. And in that, then he opens himself up in being distracted to some type of action that is destructive by the other individual, whether it be physically or emotionally.

BRENDA: I’m not sure I quite… So… I just hope… I struggle a little bit more following this, because in my head what I hear is, “If it’s the best thing for R’s son to be with R and for that to happen, then I should be supportive of that, because I love R.”

ELIAS: And what expresses that it is the best thing for R’s son to be there?

BRENDA: I… In my mind, it’s not. But then, that’s where it gets… It’s like, do I think it’s not best for R’s son because it’s not what I want? I have trouble separating what I want and looking at the situation objectively, because—

ELIAS: But stop! Stop. Stop. Stop. First of all, that was somewhat of a rhetorical question. (Brenda laughs) In fact, it’s irrelevant.

BRENDA: Oh!

ELIAS: Because the point is: what is the greatest benefit for you? That’s the point. The point is what is the best for you, what is the greatest benefit for you, and when you don’t move in that direction, don’t honor that, you also aren’t honoring your partner. Because when you don’t honor that, then you create a situation in which then you become a liability, again, in a different capacity. You’re not necessarily a physical liability. But in that, how do you become a liability? Because in that, you will ultimately most likely not feel supported and therefore, then that creates seeds of resentment. And in that, regardless of what you SAY and what actions you engage, the energy will be there and will be projected, that you’re not comfortable and that you’re having conflict, and that will be distracting to your partner. And therefore, if he’s distracted and isn’t paying tremendous attention to his son, then it’s very likely that his son will engage some action that will be destructive.

BRENDA: It just feels like (chuckles) sort of like a Catch-22, because I want my relationship with R without the situation with R’s son, and yet obviously we’re all in the situation with R’s son and…

ELIAS: I understand. But in this, this is what I am expressing about cooperation and about you moving in the direction of health and well-being. In this, with cooperation you don’t always get everything that you want. In that, I would say that if you are moving in a direction of honoring yourself and moving in the direction of what is to your greatest benefit, which is not to necessarily participate with that choice. If he chooses to take in the other individual, that’s his choice, but moving in the direction of your greatest benefit is not necessarily to participate with that. In that, making your choice, as I expressed, you all influence each other, and therefore you likely will influence your partner.

Now; that may not be the influence that is black and white. It may not be that he chooses not to allow the other individual to stay there, but he might alter that and he might express boundaries with that. He might express that he can stay there, but only for a certain amount of time, or he might express that he can stay there with certain conditions. And then it’s a matter of whether the other individual wants to agree to those conditions, which he may not.

BRENDA: Or that he would honor them.

ELIAS: There are many different directions that can ensue. It’s not black and white.

BRENDA: I guess what it feels like, what I… is to express to R what’s beneficial for me, like not wanting to participate if he does take his son in, that R perceives that as a threat, then comes back and says, “Well, what do you want me to do? Put my son out on the street?” and then we get into that kind of dynamic.

ELIAS: No. No. No. No. No. Then— Don’t express that automatically: “Then we get into this.” No. That is a matter of how you respond. And in that, it’s a matter of he might say that, and then in that, it is a matter of you responding differently than you usually would. Meaning, no, you’re not expressing for him to do anything. You’re not telling him anything to do. You’re not expecting him to do anything, because you don’t have an expectation of him or what he will do. You’re only telling him what your choice is. You’re only communicating to him what you’re choosing for your health and well-being, for your benefit.

In that, that you still support him, regardless of what he chooses. If he chooses to have his son move into his home, you support him in that. If he chooses not to, you support him in that. That it’s not that you’re not supporting him or that you are not willing to be supportive of him, you are simply expressing what choice you are making for you. And the reason that you’re making that choice for you is because you can see that you realize that you would be uncomfortable – for you already are uncomfortable – with the idea of participating with this other individual.

And you don’t have to express all of this. I’m simply expressing it for you, for your clarity.

BRENDA: Yes. Thank you.

ELIAS: In that, you’re aware that you wouldn’t be comfortable. And if you’re not comfortable, then you’re not going to be expressing in a manner that is actually cooperating with him. And if you’re not cooperating with him, then it’s very likely that there will be conflict that ensues.

In this as I said, you don’t have to express any of that because it’s not necessary. All that is necessary for you to express is, in response to him IF he says, “What am I supposed to do? Choose between the two of you? Or turn my son out onto the street?” “No. You’re not supposed to do anything except for what you choose to do.” And you’re not telling him what to do, and you’re not telling him that you won’t engage with him and that you won’t be supportive of him. You will. You love him. You will be supportive of him, regardless of what choice he makes. And in that, this is not about anything that you expect him to do.

BRENDA: So, can I be supportive of him, if that’s what he chooses? To have—

ELIAS: Most definitely. Most definitely. You likely can be more supportive, because you’re not there. Because you are not involving yourself with his son. Because you are not putting yourself in a position of being either irritated or agitated or distressed.

[The timer for the end of the session rings]

ELIAS: Therefore yes, you can move in a direction of being supportive to him. You can listen to him and you can likely listen more objectively, and not be automatically expressing inwardly some judgment, but rather that you can listen more in the capacity that you are actually supporting what he’s expressing, and perhaps even offering helpfulness and ideas. And in that, I would say that you also can be more supportive in relation to being engaged with him himself, not necessarily in relation to his son. Because you’re not involving yourself in the situation directly and therefore, being influenced by the son and being irritated.

BRENDA: Right.

ELIAS: Or resentful.

BRENDA: Yeah. (Laughs) I definitely see that. Wow. So that’s a lot to take in. It definitely gives me clarity on both situations, and I was struggling with that. (Laughs) So thanks. So thank you. We may have—

ELIAS: You are very welcome. And I would say, keep remembering the boat.

BRENDA: Yeah.

ELIAS: Not that that’ll be difficult.

BRENDA: (Laughs) No. It’s still… We still don’t know what all we’ve done to her. Yes, that’s… I had not thought of that at all, so that’s very, very helpful.

Well, our time is up. And Linda will talk to you… When is it? This is June. She’s got the July session. So we’ll have an update in August and see where—

ELIAS: Very well.

BRENDA: See where I’ve landed, and hopefully have the boat back in the water. (Both laugh)

ELIAS: Very well. (Chuckles) I shall greatly be anticipating our next meeting, my friend.

BRENDA: Thank you so much.

ELIAS: In tremendous love and affection, and dear friendship to you as always, au revoir.

BRENDA: Au revoir.

(Elias departs after 1 hour 2 minutes)


[1] The actual names of “R” and “R’s son” are omitted as requested by Brenda.

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